The Legacy of Las Casas

The Catholic diocese of Chiapas, Mexico—and especially its bishop, Samuel Ruíz García—received international attention during the indigenous uprising this January. Ruíz, who is also the founder of the Fray Bartolomé de Las Casas Center for Human Rights in Chiapas, spoke with Sojourners’ Rose Berger and Julie Polter in October 1993 when the bishop was in Washington, D.C., to receive the Institute for Policy Studies 1993 International Letelier-Moffitt Award for Human Rights. —The Editors

Sojourners: In our own experience here with liberation theology, we have learned that one’s understanding of the gospel is formed by what you see when you look out the window each morning. What do you see when you look out your window?

Bishop Ruíz:

Questions about liberation theology sometimes worry me. How are you thinking about liberation theology? I don’t care about liberation theology, I care about liberation! Sometimes this question is asked from the European point of view, which brings a certain stencil, already cut out, ready to be applied in every situation.

For us this is no good. What is important is how and what we do with poor people. What is important is our commitment as Christians in a certain situation. Later on comes the organization of all of this thinking. Liberation theology is the third step.

Sojourners: How has the legacy of Las Casas continued on in your work today and how has it changed? [Editors’ note: Fray Bartolomé de Las Casas was a 16th-century priest who struggled for the human rights of indigenous people in Mexico.]

Ruíz: Some of the situations he faced and spoke of have gotten worse. The arrival of Columbus was the beginning of the despoliation of the land. Now we face NAFTA, which will change the Mexican law regarding the ownership of land. These are the rights of land ownership won by the Mexican Revolution, and we are about to lose them.

People have the right to own their own land. The revolution made laws that no one can sell land but can only give it to family in order to avoid the concentration of land in the hands of a few wealthy holders. The new laws under NAFTA will allow them to sell land and allow land to become concentrated in the hands of foreign owners. In that way Indians and farmers lose again. Suddenly taxes on smaller farms begin to go up and soon there is someone coming around asking them if they want to sell.

Sojourners:

How much of an influence from conservative evangelical groups are you seeing in your communities?

Ruíz: We make a distinction in Latin America between evangelical and sectarian. Evangelical groups have a long history in our country; they have taken the time to build relationships with the people and seem to respect them. When Indians were expelled from their land, those groups cooperated with us to get the land back.

Sectarian groups are more focused on gaining people any way they can. They are used by the government to divide and control the people. This breaks up the processes of change in communities.

Sojourners: Is there an armed insurgency rising in Mexico?

Ruíz: As much as in every country where the injustice just keeps increasing. The question of the hour is what are we to do? The fight for change is not just in one country. The violence in the situation is not coming from the bottom of the society. The people on the bottom become aware that they have some rights, and they say this and the upper part of society responds violently. When Indians are responded to in a violent way it is not possible for them always to respond nonviolently.

This is not yet the situation in Mexico, but increasing awareness among the Indians may lead to this if the government continues to be unresponsive. In former times, the poor people were not aware they had legal rights.

Sojourners: What is there in indigenous culture that gives them political power? Why is it important for them to preserve their culture?

Ruíz: All over, from Alaska to South America, indigenous people are not only claiming their own rights but offering the values of their cultures to the rest of the world. When the pope was in Santa Domingo he told the Indians that they must offer their values and culture for the salvation of us all.

After 500 years of oppression, Indian people are still alive—and not just alive but proposing ideas for the whole culture. They are thinking that they have values in their own culture to offer everyone—such as keeping commitments; justice, not only for their own change but the change of governments as well; reconciliation to be worked out within the community. These are some of the values they want to offer.

Sojourners: What is the face of Jesus that you see in your communities today?

Ruíz:

It is not really Christ risen. It is still the Passion. He is on the cross, suffering, but not without hope. When we see people with hope, we know there is still the possibility for change. We can see the pain of Christ in the community, but also the hope.