csquared78

Marriage isn't a right it's a privilege. Jesus did address marriage and very much instructed it as a union between a man and woman. Also, if Jesus didn't say anything about homosexual relations therefore we should assume it is not a sin, let us consider this logic:

Jesus didn't say anything about rape or incest, are these then not sins?

As someone who is firmly conservative (politically and theologically), thank you Tony for posting this article. I believe that my Christian brothers and sisters made a mistake by not extending grace and mercy to Bill Clinton during his various marital troubles.

As someone who has been forgiven much, it is required for us to extend mercy to those who seek it. That is the Gospel! The most important question we (voters and believers especially) must ask when deciding who to vote for is not what policies are best, who will do what, but who is telling the truth. Thank you again Tony for the article.

And David, one more final thought. I need to confess, I have not read the Driscoll's book. My criticism has been to what you and your wife have said regarding the Driscolls and the book they have written. I just spent the last 20 minutes reading excerpts on Google books.

After reading the excerpts, especially from the chapter "Disgrace adn Grace," I think you and your wife have a lot of nerve to make the comments you do. How dare you say that Mark is confused sexually when his wife is pouring out her heart about the trauma of sexual abuse she went through. How dare you criticize these two God fearing individuals who took a great risk to write a book about sex and then lay out their sexual histories for all the world to see. I don't see a confused sexual man, but a person, in fact a marriage that is striving to give hope to other couples who are at the end of their rope. I see a woman, namely Grace Driscoll as a person who desperately wants to be healed of past abuse and sin. I see a loving husband who cries when his wife shares with him her past and then tries to lovingly lead. This is a man who is confused sexually?

You know, I have an idea, why don't you and your wife share your sexual history with us. Why don't you lay out your lives for all of us to see, share with us all the dirt and mistakes. Since your words now are more critical and I believe harmful than before, go and lay out your lives and then tell me how confused Mark is sexually.

This book does communicate the Gospel and God's love for fallen humans. It does communicate God's hope and the love of Jesus for those who desperately need answers to sex and sexuality. Since you and your wife again, have no personal opinions about the Driscolls (which, I do not believe), then lay out your past and current sexual struggles. Lay it out completely. Then tell me how bad this book is and confused Mark Driscoll is.

Hey David, I am sorry for misunderstanding you. You have said on more than one occasion that you don't have personal opinions about the Driscolls and do not know them personally. Forgive me for reading into that, I mean when you say that Mark must be confused sexually, and that you really don't like Mark Driscoll's ministry or leadership, I mean how could I possibly think you don't have personal opinions about the Driscoll's. Forgive me for my error.

Also, it is interesting that you don't see the power of the Holy Spirit working in the Seattle area and that you continue to denigrate the work that He is doing through the lives that are being changed. People are entering into the kingdom of God, their names are being written in the Lamb's book of life and they are being saved by Jesus himself. Why would you and your wife be so condescending to someone who is obeying the words of our Lord (Matthew 28:18-20)?

Thank you Linda V. You have just proved our point.

First, a big thanks to 2204 for his response to you Mr. Vanderveen. Second Mr. Vanderveen, since you and your wife have no personal opinions about the Driscolls and that your review was not a personal attack, other than that your wife really doesn't like him, believes he is sexually confused, and you believe his Biblical knowledge is questionable, I can see how I missed your desire for other models of discipleship.

Let's face it David, you don't like Mark Driscoll because of his theology. You don't like him because he happens to believe in the whole counsel of God and his preaching and ministry reflect that. He believes that Jesus is the only way to heaven and that there is a literal hell. He also believes in original sin and that Jesus is the way, truth, and life, and that no other person can enter the kingdom of heaven except through him. I would suspect your wife doesn't like him for the same reason. You probably also don't like him because he has the audacity to question those who deny the uniqueness of Jesus and his provision for man's sin.

I would also say that if you read Jim Collins carefully, as I have done (Good to Great and Built to Last) you will see that he never says charisma is bad, just that it can be a liability. Also, Jim Collins' material is great, it is informative, but it is NOT SCRIPTURE! Idolatry is condemned in scripture and I have heard Mark preach on its dangers. You can search his podcast to see. However, my main point is that you have a problem with his theology, which means you have a problem with God. Your problem is that you have denied the very teachings of Christ that you say you defend. How do I know this, because of your response to Mark Driscoll's position on homosexuality. I also know that if you really believed in the teachings of Christ, you would be grateful for the lives that are being changed as a result of Mark Driscoll's ministry. You would celebrate the fact that lives are changing and the Holy Spirit is working and the kingdom of God is increasing.

I would much rather ask a Godly pastor questions about sex and sexuality than a doctor or licensed therapist whose morals and beliefs may contradict the God who has rescued me. I would much rather read the Bible and see his desire for sexuality than listen to the culture about what is right and wrong or even acceptable. The words of Jesus have pierced my heart because his resurrection power has saved my soul. Has he saved yours?

First, thank you 'thevanished' for your posts. You seem to bring some wisdom to the writers of this article who when looking at their credentials make you ask, what are your qualifications.

Okay, as Mr. & Mrs. Vanderveen have posted their review of Mark Driscoll's book, I think a few things stand out to me that need addressing. One is Mr. Vanderveen's explanation as to why Jesus came to Earth. Since, you believe he came to share stories and give us some more stories, you are WRONG! Jesus came to give himself so those who believe in him will not perish, but have everlasting life. He came to save the world through him. You see, our original sin prevents us from knowing God, so God bridged the gap, by sending his son Jesus to die for our sins, and save us from God's wrath. The whole story nonsense, is just plain stupid. I agree Jesus spoke in parables, and he gave direction, but his main purpose was salvation. His parables and stories do not make sense to an unbelieving heart, it is only when our hearts are opened by the power of the Holy Spirit can we then know the greater story and apply his message to our life. Without Christ this is impossible.

Also, I think it is funny how Mr. & Mrs. Vanderveen gloss over the issues of homosexuality and polygamy. Let's focus on homosexuality, there is no way that if you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, have had your heart opened by his Holy Spirit and read through the Bible with care, that you can believe homosexuality in practice is acceptable. No theology or explanation will change the Biblical text. Marriage is for one man and one woman only. The Old and New Testaments confirm this. As for those who believe Jesus never said anything about homosexuality so we cannot presume to know his views. Then first remember his words regarding marriage that a man and woman will become one flesh. That is A MAN AND A WOMAN! Next, consider this, Jesus never spoke about rape or incest. Since he did not speak about this, are rape or incest okay? I hardly think so. As for polygamy, if you believe the Bible is the whole counsel of God, then the words of Paul should ring true. However, I am suspicious that Mr. and Mrs. Vanderveen do.

In closing it sounds to me that Mr. and Mrs. Vanderveen really do not like Mark Driscoll and are resentful of the work he has accomplished in the city of Seattle through Mars Hill Chruch. Many people are entering the kingdom of Heaven and receiving forgiveness of their sins. Their lives are being written in the Lamb's book of life and they are crossing over from death to life. But hey, let's be very critical even hateful of Mark Driscoll and accuse him of sexual confusion. Let's denigrate his work, hey Jesus never said anything about gossip, hatred, or spite...or did he?

David Vanderveen is wrong. The most influential Christian of the 19th century was Charles Spurgeon. Charles Finney is way down on that list. It might be more helpful to ask who is a believer as opposed to try and define an evangelical. Ms. Falsani, again, I ask is a believer one who votes a certain way or only adheres to a certain theology? I will say that a believer is one whose heart has been opened by the power of the Holy Spirit and because of God's incredible love has received the gift of Salvation only offered through Jesus. They have received him as Lord and Savior of their soul. This act of faith by the power of Holy Spirit is how we know if a person is a believer. I would also say it how we will know if someone is also an evangelical. One final thought. I wish Rob Bell would have told the person where the source of that hope comes from instead of being ambiguous. But, in light of his writings I am not surprised. So Ms. Falsani are you a believer?

Sorry Agnosticnomore and BlueStreak...you're wrong. The resurrection is the most incredible event in human history, it proves Jesus is who he said he was. Because of this, we know the answer to "now what?" Also, I am aware this is a political blog, but I never mentioned any politics in these posts, so let's just remember that.

Incredibly, Agnosticnomore, I respect the fact that you answered my questions head on and did not try to put words into my mouth. Thank you.

Not surprisingly, BlueStreak, you did put words into my mouth and only answered part of my post head on. For that, please make a note and change your ways.  I would also question whether everyone on this blog would agree that Jesus rose from the dead and is the way, the truth, and the life. This is based on other posts by other authors (not necessarily Ms. Falsani).

I will not post anymore on this blog, even if Squeaky responds. Thank you for your lively responses. And as I have said before, Jesus' resurrection is the greatest event in human history. No man has influenced the world more than Jesus. He is the center of the universe and all of human history is defined by him. He is the way, the truth, and the life, no one can receive salvation except thorugh him. That is a message far better than some sacred conversation, in fact that is the only true sacred message that can change the world.

Squeaky...it is very necessary to define the meaning of Christianity on a blog, especially when so many of the writers post questionable and sometimes downright false beliefs that are not theologically correct. You make a point to assume what Ms. Falsani said, however you cannot make this point unless you know her personally and since I don't I can only go by what is written.

Furthermore, we do not "win someone" to the Gospel. The Holy Spirit does that. Our job is to take the initiative in the power of the Holy Spirit and leave the results to God. Our conversations should honor Christ, preach his resurrection, and by that we will display the fruit of the Spirit.

When followers of Christ share their faith they are introducing them to the Savior of the world, that is far better and far greater than joining some sacred conversation.