Obama had an original opportunity to do this right, as Catholic groups had already told him specifically what their objections were. He told them to go jump, until it suddenly looked politically difficult. He continues to use manipulative language on the issue, - women having to choose between religious liberty and basic fairness...what???
You like the guy, and you believe him when he tells you things. You have to correct for that at every turn, just as I have to correct for not trusting him, not letting my skepticism become disbelief automatically - I have to have a reason.
I am glad he has offered the compromise, though it seems a bit weak. Still, it is there, it is real, it may be something people can move forward on.
I'm with Jesse3. I heartily dislike war rhetoric on things that aren't really wars; but if sojo doesn't like the war rhetoric, they are welcome to drop it anytime as a good example. Even better, it could rescind past examples.
Well, Arachne646 and agnosticnomore sure proved pooch correct right off the bat, didn't they? Why ask questions if you already think you know the answers? I suppose if you can swallow Shank's rewriting of history to serve his rhetorical needs you can swallow anything, though. Instead of arguing against what you can pretend people said then and say now, why not argue against real ones? I don't know if any of our wars were worth it, including the American Revolution, but you have to start all discussion by being merely honest. Here's a start: Search "haditha" on this site and see what you find in the way of accusations and assumptions, versus what you find in retractions. Then tell me you're on the side of truth.
Uh, Tim, that's pretty simple. You're a Christian magazine, you issue a press release, it automatically carries the implication that there is a religious foundation to the ideas. That's not an unfortunate by-product, it is central to what you do.
The reason it would be inappropriate for Sojourners to do restaurant reviews is that would suggest, however indirectly, that there was some faith-based reason for going or not going. You can have opinions on all manner of things that may not relate to faith, but if you publish them in a Christian magazine you have stated they are. Why should anyone care what Sojourner's opinion on the subject is, except as it relates to faith? Sometimes an idea may be founded on faith via a long chain, so that specific scriptures or doctrines are not immediately apparent, but they are still there.
Unless you really mean something else. If it is Sojo's intent to be a liberal magazine for Christians, then you're fine. But in that case, you shouldn't be writing "Sojourners, as a Christian organization, is rooted in scripture. The Bible is central to the work we do and it is from this starting point that we derive the values that fuel our mission." You can have it either way, but not both ways.
"...it makes God sad when big oil and gas companies eat out the heart of the earth for money." Okay, you were being cute, but coming off the previous unevidenced assertions, you might not want to give away the game that the tie betyween your faith and your environmentalism may be founded on an anthropomorphising kitties-and-puppies argument.
Tradeoffs are the reality of the adult world. Every time you find yourself thinking that something is an unmitigated evil, waving your hands about in the air claiming it is a climate disaster, you need to stop dead in your tracks and realise you must be at least partly mistaken. Real life isn't like that.
If you do that often enough, you will discover that Bill McKibben no longer makes any sense, too, freeing up all the time you used to spend reading him.
So in your mind, "homework" is reading the minds of Republicans? You have some sort of Motive-o-meter that reveals this secret knowledge to you? A few scraps is good enough for confirmation bias, I know, but an actual logical argument requires more.
When it occurs to you that a lot of political arguments are nothing more than reciting your favored narrative, you may begin to get it.
Nice series. Christians might wish that Dickens were a bit more explicit in his Christianity in the story, but I think that would be expecting him to give what he did not have. He does include a few specific references, and he certainly absorbed the idea of personal charity, however vague and Unitarian he became in his beliefs.
There is an irony of the importance of Ebenezer's conversion, given that Dickens found those Christian groups that stress conversion - which at that time meant Methodists and later the Salvation Army - irritating. Perhaps he understood better at an intuitive level what was needed than he could apprehend intellectually. I think you pick up quite well the centrality of the the repentance and conversion themes, which have indeed been watered down to a more general "learning his lesson," or "seeing more clearly" in modern popular culture. The change in ES is deeper than that, and conversion is the proper word.
But I suppose if Chesterton could sign on so heartily, I shouldn't quibble, eh?
Uh, that's weak. The commenter makes a reasonable point in fair language and you give him a fifth-grader's reply. They came to register, they stayed, they went home, and you are going to stand on the possibility that because the scriptures don't say "oh, and just so you know, they got like all properly registered and everything," that it didn't happen?
I get it that everyone wants to capture Jesus as poster child for their favorite political causes - in the case of this post, not vey accurately, BTW - but we should always be at least a little nervous when we do it. Such captures have a bad history in the Church.
The first paragraphs in this essay. Are you quoting someone? Because it looks an awful lot like you are just mind-reading, attributing whatever motives and thoughts you like onto others. I suspect you will claim that people have said things like this and this is what they really mean, you are just fluffing it up for dramatic effect, etc, etc.
Unless you are wrong of course, even a little bit - in which case you are bearing false witness, which last I checked, was one of the Big Ten. You tread on very dangerous ground, but don't seem to treat that very seriously. That most people who write about political matters are similarly unworried about bearing false witness doesn't strike me as a strong excuse.
I could make up what Brian McLaren thinks and criticise him for that, you know.
Background that may be important: Dickens' parents both grew up expecting to have more of the wealth and good things of the world than they ultimately did. They were never well well-off during Charles' childhood, but they expected that they should be, and deeply resented laws and systems that kept them from what they felt was their proper place in the world. Charles, who paid a high cost because of being pulled out of school at a young age to work under horrible conditions to support his wastrel father, seems to have had very conflicted ideas about money and wealth throughout his life, hating it but also feeling it was important.
The conflict doubles because England had become the first nation (second if you count Holland as ahead of it) that was not 90% impoverished people only a century before, yet wealth was still distributed quite unequally. Prior to 1700 people were poor but never expected it to be much different. As national wealth increased, aspiration, resentment, and awareness increased as well.
Dickens had gone out of favor in culture by 1900, but was brought back largely by Chesterton and Shaw.
Official rhetoric has helped fuel an escalation of tension between the United States and Iran. Do recent negotiations mark a change in direction, or just a temporary detour from the highway to military attack?
Comments
Obama had an original opportunity to do this right, as Catholic groups had already told him specifically what their objections were. He told them to go jump, until it suddenly looked politically difficult. He continues to use manipulative language on the issue, - women having to choose between religious liberty and basic fairness...what???
You like the guy, and you believe him when he tells you things. You have to correct for that at every turn, just as I have to correct for not trusting him, not letting my skepticism become disbelief automatically - I have to have a reason.
I am glad he has offered the compromise, though it seems a bit weak. Still, it is there, it is real, it may be something people can move forward on.
I'm with Jesse3. I heartily dislike war rhetoric on things that aren't really wars; but if sojo doesn't like the war rhetoric, they are welcome to drop it anytime as a good example. Even better, it could rescind past examples.
Well, Arachne646 and agnosticnomore sure proved pooch correct right off the bat, didn't they? Why ask questions if you already think you know the answers? I suppose if you can swallow Shank's rewriting of history to serve his rhetorical needs you can swallow anything, though. Instead of arguing against what you can pretend people said then and say now, why not argue against real ones? I don't know if any of our wars were worth it, including the American Revolution, but you have to start all discussion by being merely honest. Here's a start: Search "haditha" on this site and see what you find in the way of accusations and assumptions, versus what you find in retractions. Then tell me you're on the side of truth.
Uh, Tim, that's pretty simple. You're a Christian magazine, you issue a press release, it automatically carries the implication that there is a religious foundation to the ideas. That's not an unfortunate by-product, it is central to what you do.
The reason it would be inappropriate for Sojourners to do restaurant reviews is that would suggest, however indirectly, that there was some faith-based reason for going or not going. You can have opinions on all manner of things that may not relate to faith, but if you publish them in a Christian magazine you have stated they are. Why should anyone care what Sojourner's opinion on the subject is, except as it relates to faith? Sometimes an idea may be founded on faith via a long chain, so that specific scriptures or doctrines are not immediately apparent, but they are still there.
Unless you really mean something else. If it is Sojo's intent to be a liberal magazine for Christians, then you're fine. But in that case, you shouldn't be writing "Sojourners, as a Christian organization, is rooted in scripture. The Bible is central to the work we do and it is from this starting point that we derive the values that fuel our mission." You can have it either way, but not both ways.
Ayn Rand is of only minor importance in Tea Party thinking. Randians wish otherwise.
Double-post. Deleted
"...it makes God sad when big oil and gas companies eat out the heart of the earth for money." Okay, you were being cute, but coming off the previous unevidenced assertions, you might not want to give away the game that the tie betyween your faith and your environmentalism may be founded on an anthropomorphising kitties-and-puppies argument.
Tradeoffs are the reality of the adult world. Every time you find yourself thinking that something is an unmitigated evil, waving your hands about in the air claiming it is a climate disaster, you need to stop dead in your tracks and realise you must be at least partly mistaken. Real life isn't like that.
If you do that often enough, you will discover that Bill McKibben no longer makes any sense, too, freeing up all the time you used to spend reading him.
So in your mind, "homework" is reading the minds of Republicans? You have some sort of Motive-o-meter that reveals this secret knowledge to you? A few scraps is good enough for confirmation bias, I know, but an actual logical argument requires more.
When it occurs to you that a lot of political arguments are nothing more than reciting your favored narrative, you may begin to get it.
Nice series. Christians might wish that Dickens were a bit more explicit in his Christianity in the story, but I think that would be expecting him to give what he did not have. He does include a few specific references, and he certainly absorbed the idea of personal charity, however vague and Unitarian he became in his beliefs.
There is an irony of the importance of Ebenezer's conversion, given that Dickens found those Christian groups that stress conversion - which at that time meant Methodists and later the Salvation Army - irritating. Perhaps he understood better at an intuitive level what was needed than he could apprehend intellectually. I think you pick up quite well the centrality of the the repentance and conversion themes, which have indeed been watered down to a more general "learning his lesson," or "seeing more clearly" in modern popular culture. The change in ES is deeper than that, and conversion is the proper word.
But I suppose if Chesterton could sign on so heartily, I shouldn't quibble, eh?
Uh, that's weak. The commenter makes a reasonable point in fair language and you give him a fifth-grader's reply. They came to register, they stayed, they went home, and you are going to stand on the possibility that because the scriptures don't say "oh, and just so you know, they got like all properly registered and everything," that it didn't happen?
I get it that everyone wants to capture Jesus as poster child for their favorite political causes - in the case of this post, not vey accurately, BTW - but we should always be at least a little nervous when we do it. Such captures have a bad history in the Church.
The first paragraphs in this essay. Are you quoting someone? Because it looks an awful lot like you are just mind-reading, attributing whatever motives and thoughts you like onto others. I suspect you will claim that people have said things like this and this is what they really mean, you are just fluffing it up for dramatic effect, etc, etc.
Unless you are wrong of course, even a little bit - in which case you are bearing false witness, which last I checked, was one of the Big Ten. You tread on very dangerous ground, but don't seem to treat that very seriously. That most people who write about political matters are similarly unworried about bearing false witness doesn't strike me as a strong excuse.
I could make up what Brian McLaren thinks and criticise him for that, you know.
Spot on. Worse, we are really, really good at identifying other people's idols.
Looking forward to this.
Background that may be important: Dickens' parents both grew up expecting to have more of the wealth and good things of the world than they ultimately did. They were never well well-off during Charles' childhood, but they expected that they should be, and deeply resented laws and systems that kept them from what they felt was their proper place in the world. Charles, who paid a high cost because of being pulled out of school at a young age to work under horrible conditions to support his wastrel father, seems to have had very conflicted ideas about money and wealth throughout his life, hating it but also feeling it was important.
The conflict doubles because England had become the first nation (second if you count Holland as ahead of it) that was not 90% impoverished people only a century before, yet wealth was still distributed quite unequally. Prior to 1700 people were poor but never expected it to be much different. As national wealth increased, aspiration, resentment, and awareness increased as well.
Dickens had gone out of favor in culture by 1900, but was brought back largely by Chesterton and Shaw.